You did an absolutely amazing, passionate, accurate job! I have nothing to add except to say it’s not only UGLY, it’s INCREDIBLY UGLY!! Thank you, thank you.
Summed up a lot of things not just the flag. The ubiquitous LGBTQetc”, the complete absence of any reference to GAY Pride month, glorification of drag to schoolchildren, Disney World for example drenched in the pink and blue pedo colors for all the special foods, the total surrender of the corporations and the mutilation of gay children in the name of helping them find their real selves. All turning the clock back 50 years.
Full disclosure: I'm a white Brit mid 50s heterosexual man. In my youth I was very fortunate to spend a lot of time with, and learning from, a group of political activists calling themselves Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners (an alliance supporting the mine workers during the UK strike of '84–85). This was when I first understood Pride was seeking emancipation for Lesbians and Homosexuals, for them to be accepted for what they are, gain equality in law and society, etc. Quite right too! Now the gender identity extremists seek the opposite: they demand, often with threats, affirmation for what they aren't.
It's quite remarkable that trans women in particular have largely attained emancipation in a few short years. Yet despite thousands of years of male domination and oppression of women, females are still waiting for emancipation, and us men remain largely in charge including of your single sex spaces and places.
To me the the “progress pride flag” are the colours of anti-science new oppression being hawked as progress. Trampling over marginalised groups in a half arsed attempt to lift a marginalised group isn't progress or liberation: it's more oppression.
I think it's not a half bad film in terms of historical accuracy, but unsurprisingly fails to fully reflect what happened due to added showbiz sparkle, Borehamwood polish and significant rose tinting.
It’s also just plain ugly. The rainbow is pretty and natural. These new iterations of it are crowded, unsightly, and confusing to look at. There’s no need to steal a perfectly good flag and modify it how you like to represent something new. Just make a new flag with a new symbol.
There is no single community, the acronym is a collection of subcultures and that gay and lesbians worked together to win right to serve in military, marriage equality and housing, education and careers, those are public square human rights. There is no right to sexually harass others or practise kink to a nonconsenting public
This is a great article. It's time that Lesbians leave behind all the GB's etc. groups and unite. Unless our voices ring loud and clear about our issues we will always be wrapped in the flags designed by men for men. Thanks for standing up for all of us...Lesbians.
I agree. It's time lesbians stop taking gay/bisexual male organizations' money and go make bread somewhere while advocating for the murder of unwanted babies.
Simply, as said in the article, the TQ+ are taking over and erasing our community! I will not acknowledge that flag. Mr Gilbert's flag is the only flag that represents me as a lesbian.
Excellent analysis of the so-called "progress pride flag." Wherever I see them, I have the urge to pull them down and tear them apart, like Capt. VonTrapp did to the Nazi flags in the Sound of Music. Equally annoying as this flag is, are the many lesbian, gay, and bi people accepting it without question. Grateful for this article.
Watch Magdalen Berns. She was an amazing voice for lesbians and women. I was once blind to what was going on, when I came out as a lesbian, I thought the default was to seek shelter from patriarchy and heteronormativity in the LGBT community. I wanted to experience lesbian bars and spaces but there were none. "Trans lesbian" is a term used for heterosexual men to identify as to take advantage of young lesbians. A lesbian is a homosexual woman. We want nothing to do with men, which leads me to guess why we are up against so much bullshit. The patriarchy just can't handle women who call out its bullshit and reeks of fragile masculinity. It's crystal clear. A lesbian has every god damn right to not center her world around men. We want nothing to do with them. In the invincible words of Magdalen Berns herself, "leave lesbians alone, you creep". Just fuck off m8. I'm a lesbian how hard is it to grasp that we are homosexual women? Why do men think it's OK to harrass us when they know we are homosexual? It's so pathetic.
I hate it too. It reminds me also of the sado-masochist flag. Just to clarify the history of some of us who are Lesbians, we never agreed to be added to our oppressors, "GBTQetc." Against our will. But "T" is the oppressor of all of us, being primarily het men demanding access to Lesbians. And contrary to myth, the few women identifying as trans, are not primarily Butch, but are mostly Fem women posturing a bizarre stereotype, with some like pornographer Pat Califia are het/bisexual women demanding access to gay men. It's a mess.
Meanwhile, Lesbians are being erased more than every before. Being identified with this mess has serious health consequences beside our history being erased ("T" is relatively new and is intrinsically anti Lesbian and Gay.) I can only imagine the increasing Lesbian-hating, but a personal experience is when I went to the doctor with a rapidly increasing fever and white spots on my throat, and I was refused a strep test and asked if I had AIDS by the woman doctor I saw. Lesbians are the least likely to get AIDS. I was too sick and worried to tell that het women she was far more likely to get that STD than I would ever be. But this is part of the problem with being associated with the het and Gay men in the alphabet, like that we are also assumed to be assaulters of children.
The violence level of men claiming to be women is the same as other het men. Yet it's now added to statistics on women.
How do you even know the doctor asked you if you have AIDS because they associated you with gay men? It seems like you are the one associating AIDS with gay men. No person should be assumed to be assaulter of kids, not even if that person is male. Why did you write that gay/bisexual men are your oppressors? How did I oppress lesbians?
By definition lesbians have nothing to do with males of any orientation. We should never have joined up with the GBs in the first place; adding the T (let alone all the garbage that followed) merely turned a mistake into a farce.
If you only examined the statistical data, conflating lesbians with GBs would make no sense at all. As two separate groups, our social, psychological, criminological, sexual, and biological issues, interests, and risks have absolutely nothing in common, and no one has ever even tried to pretend otherwise. It's only as a political cause that it may have seemed necessary, once upon a time, but that time is long past. We can and should split off now.
Because while I agree with most of the list above, I have to take issue with #6, at least in part: "the false belief that homosexuality is linked to pedophilia" is only false with reference to lesbians.
Male homosexuality, throughout millennia and across many cultures, from ancient Greece and Rome to present-day Afghanistan, is not only linked to but practically synonymous with pedophilia. There's a reason gays joke that "20 is the gay 60."
The "MAP acceptance" promoted by outlets like Salon, the child drag shows, and the child-grooming and pornography in schools - these things have nothing to do with lesbians. We urgently need to disassociate ourselves from this evil, because an eminently justified backlash is building, and we do not want to be standing next to the GBT+ crowd when it hits.
But definition, some of the TQ are lesbians. And so are some of the groomers at schools. And I've NEVER heard that joke coming out of any man's mouth. (I bet you haven't either). Male abusers of kids can be bisexual, homosexual or heterosexual. Being attracted to adult males is not synonymous with being attracted to non-adult males the same way lesbianism is not synonymous with being attracted to young girls. If you could prove those men in Afghanistan are all strictly androphilic like the Western gay men, THEN you could say we shared some similarities. So instead of affirming things you can't prove, why don't just shut up?
Thanks for this. It echoes so much of what many of us have been saying these past few years since that hideous Frankenflag came along. I do take issue though with the idea that “black and brown-skinned people were instrumental” in founding our movement. That’s very American-centric. We folk elsewhere on Earth weren’t just sitting around waiting for the good old US of A to come and save us. We had our movements long before Stonewall and the Pride flag. It’s nice to have symbols to unite us, but don’t erase the global struggle before New York in 1969.
I do not like it, becaise of the absurdity that has become the whole issue. "I am a tree, slave to the mighty whale, identifying ass a milky way"? My work colleagues, all supportive of me (lesbian woman, transgender) and the general LGBTI community, and myself, do not need another letter appended to LGBTI. Because each of these 5 letters are representative for a battle fought, past, present and future, on so many levels. But the Queer, Drag, Non-binary, Barking unicorn snails, need to get on their computer and reboot. Cosplay is related to Anome, not to any LGBTI issue, even though the Anima / Manga creators have long supported us. Drag Queens with beard in parrot dresses, not representative for us, leading to more prejudices and hatred. Drag is an Art, if skillfully and delicately exercised. Vulgaire Drag Queens rubbing their privates in other mens faces, disgusting and equal to assault. They do not represent me, nor do they represent the essence of who we are.
Why do YOU hate the "progress pride flag"? Let us know if we missed anything!
You did an absolutely amazing, passionate, accurate job! I have nothing to add except to say it’s not only UGLY, it’s INCREDIBLY UGLY!! Thank you, thank you.
Summed up a lot of things not just the flag. The ubiquitous LGBTQetc”, the complete absence of any reference to GAY Pride month, glorification of drag to schoolchildren, Disney World for example drenched in the pink and blue pedo colors for all the special foods, the total surrender of the corporations and the mutilation of gay children in the name of helping them find their real selves. All turning the clock back 50 years.
Full disclosure: I'm a white Brit mid 50s heterosexual man. In my youth I was very fortunate to spend a lot of time with, and learning from, a group of political activists calling themselves Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners (an alliance supporting the mine workers during the UK strike of '84–85). This was when I first understood Pride was seeking emancipation for Lesbians and Homosexuals, for them to be accepted for what they are, gain equality in law and society, etc. Quite right too! Now the gender identity extremists seek the opposite: they demand, often with threats, affirmation for what they aren't.
It's quite remarkable that trans women in particular have largely attained emancipation in a few short years. Yet despite thousands of years of male domination and oppression of women, females are still waiting for emancipation, and us men remain largely in charge including of your single sex spaces and places.
To me the the “progress pride flag” are the colours of anti-science new oppression being hawked as progress. Trampling over marginalised groups in a half arsed attempt to lift a marginalised group isn't progress or liberation: it's more oppression.
I saw the original movie "Pride" some years ago. "Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners."
I think it's not a half bad film in terms of historical accuracy, but unsurprisingly fails to fully reflect what happened due to added showbiz sparkle, Borehamwood polish and significant rose tinting.
Not gonna lie, I thought that "progress flag" was a joke/meme until people actually started using it
It’s also just plain ugly. The rainbow is pretty and natural. These new iterations of it are crowded, unsightly, and confusing to look at. There’s no need to steal a perfectly good flag and modify it how you like to represent something new. Just make a new flag with a new symbol.
There is no single community, the acronym is a collection of subcultures and that gay and lesbians worked together to win right to serve in military, marriage equality and housing, education and careers, those are public square human rights. There is no right to sexually harass others or practise kink to a nonconsenting public
This is a great article. It's time that Lesbians leave behind all the GB's etc. groups and unite. Unless our voices ring loud and clear about our issues we will always be wrapped in the flags designed by men for men. Thanks for standing up for all of us...Lesbians.
I agree. It's time lesbians stop taking gay/bisexual male organizations' money and go make bread somewhere while advocating for the murder of unwanted babies.
Simply, as said in the article, the TQ+ are taking over and erasing our community! I will not acknowledge that flag. Mr Gilbert's flag is the only flag that represents me as a lesbian.
Thank you, very good analysis.
Excellent analysis of the so-called "progress pride flag." Wherever I see them, I have the urge to pull them down and tear them apart, like Capt. VonTrapp did to the Nazi flags in the Sound of Music. Equally annoying as this flag is, are the many lesbian, gay, and bi people accepting it without question. Grateful for this article.
Watch Magdalen Berns. She was an amazing voice for lesbians and women. I was once blind to what was going on, when I came out as a lesbian, I thought the default was to seek shelter from patriarchy and heteronormativity in the LGBT community. I wanted to experience lesbian bars and spaces but there were none. "Trans lesbian" is a term used for heterosexual men to identify as to take advantage of young lesbians. A lesbian is a homosexual woman. We want nothing to do with men, which leads me to guess why we are up against so much bullshit. The patriarchy just can't handle women who call out its bullshit and reeks of fragile masculinity. It's crystal clear. A lesbian has every god damn right to not center her world around men. We want nothing to do with them. In the invincible words of Magdalen Berns herself, "leave lesbians alone, you creep". Just fuck off m8. I'm a lesbian how hard is it to grasp that we are homosexual women? Why do men think it's OK to harrass us when they know we are homosexual? It's so pathetic.
I hate it too. It reminds me also of the sado-masochist flag. Just to clarify the history of some of us who are Lesbians, we never agreed to be added to our oppressors, "GBTQetc." Against our will. But "T" is the oppressor of all of us, being primarily het men demanding access to Lesbians. And contrary to myth, the few women identifying as trans, are not primarily Butch, but are mostly Fem women posturing a bizarre stereotype, with some like pornographer Pat Califia are het/bisexual women demanding access to gay men. It's a mess.
Meanwhile, Lesbians are being erased more than every before. Being identified with this mess has serious health consequences beside our history being erased ("T" is relatively new and is intrinsically anti Lesbian and Gay.) I can only imagine the increasing Lesbian-hating, but a personal experience is when I went to the doctor with a rapidly increasing fever and white spots on my throat, and I was refused a strep test and asked if I had AIDS by the woman doctor I saw. Lesbians are the least likely to get AIDS. I was too sick and worried to tell that het women she was far more likely to get that STD than I would ever be. But this is part of the problem with being associated with the het and Gay men in the alphabet, like that we are also assumed to be assaulters of children.
The violence level of men claiming to be women is the same as other het men. Yet it's now added to statistics on women.
How do you even know the doctor asked you if you have AIDS because they associated you with gay men? It seems like you are the one associating AIDS with gay men. No person should be assumed to be assaulter of kids, not even if that person is male. Why did you write that gay/bisexual men are your oppressors? How did I oppress lesbians?
By definition lesbians have nothing to do with males of any orientation. We should never have joined up with the GBs in the first place; adding the T (let alone all the garbage that followed) merely turned a mistake into a farce.
If you only examined the statistical data, conflating lesbians with GBs would make no sense at all. As two separate groups, our social, psychological, criminological, sexual, and biological issues, interests, and risks have absolutely nothing in common, and no one has ever even tried to pretend otherwise. It's only as a political cause that it may have seemed necessary, once upon a time, but that time is long past. We can and should split off now.
Because while I agree with most of the list above, I have to take issue with #6, at least in part: "the false belief that homosexuality is linked to pedophilia" is only false with reference to lesbians.
Male homosexuality, throughout millennia and across many cultures, from ancient Greece and Rome to present-day Afghanistan, is not only linked to but practically synonymous with pedophilia. There's a reason gays joke that "20 is the gay 60."
The "MAP acceptance" promoted by outlets like Salon, the child drag shows, and the child-grooming and pornography in schools - these things have nothing to do with lesbians. We urgently need to disassociate ourselves from this evil, because an eminently justified backlash is building, and we do not want to be standing next to the GBT+ crowd when it hits.
But definition, some of the TQ are lesbians. And so are some of the groomers at schools. And I've NEVER heard that joke coming out of any man's mouth. (I bet you haven't either). Male abusers of kids can be bisexual, homosexual or heterosexual. Being attracted to adult males is not synonymous with being attracted to non-adult males the same way lesbianism is not synonymous with being attracted to young girls. If you could prove those men in Afghanistan are all strictly androphilic like the Western gay men, THEN you could say we shared some similarities. So instead of affirming things you can't prove, why don't just shut up?
Thanks for this. It echoes so much of what many of us have been saying these past few years since that hideous Frankenflag came along. I do take issue though with the idea that “black and brown-skinned people were instrumental” in founding our movement. That’s very American-centric. We folk elsewhere on Earth weren’t just sitting around waiting for the good old US of A to come and save us. We had our movements long before Stonewall and the Pride flag. It’s nice to have symbols to unite us, but don’t erase the global struggle before New York in 1969.
I do not like it, becaise of the absurdity that has become the whole issue. "I am a tree, slave to the mighty whale, identifying ass a milky way"? My work colleagues, all supportive of me (lesbian woman, transgender) and the general LGBTI community, and myself, do not need another letter appended to LGBTI. Because each of these 5 letters are representative for a battle fought, past, present and future, on so many levels. But the Queer, Drag, Non-binary, Barking unicorn snails, need to get on their computer and reboot. Cosplay is related to Anome, not to any LGBTI issue, even though the Anima / Manga creators have long supported us. Drag Queens with beard in parrot dresses, not representative for us, leading to more prejudices and hatred. Drag is an Art, if skillfully and delicately exercised. Vulgaire Drag Queens rubbing their privates in other mens faces, disgusting and equal to assault. They do not represent me, nor do they represent the essence of who we are.
That is my humble opinion on this matter.
This is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.